Black Women of Brazil

The site dedicated to Brazilian women of African descent

One woman, passed over in so many ways: Are black men more likely to listen to concerns of black women if they are articulated by white women?


capa

Note from BW of Brazil: The depths of this issue get deeper and deeper with every passing piece on the topic. Just a few days ago, Léo Custódio’s piece and affirmation of the existence of ‘palmitagem’ opened a lot of eyes because he was honest enough to admit that growing up in Rio, white girls were given a higher status and put on a pedestal by teenage boys, black and white, while the black girls were basically left to the side treated as ‘just friends’, with utter contempt or simply the ‘one night stand’.

Today, Winnie Bueno brings yet another side to the debate on how black and white women are given different treatment by black men. I’m sure there will be those who simply ignore the accusation made in today’s piece, but inside of feminists circles, black women have noted how white women often belittle, ignore grievances of black women or label their special concerns as divisive. Thus, if it is true that white women are afforded a ‘privileged status’ among women, the claim made in the following piece shouldn’t be disregarded as far-fetched. For black women reading today’s piece, ask yourself if you’ve ever witnessed what she points out in her short article. 

One woman, passed over in so many ways

By Winnie Bueno

1

Winnie Bueno of the ‘Preta Expressa’ YouTube channel

Anyone who has seen the last video I posted in Preta Expressa knows that I have been struggling to deal with the issue of being passed over for relationships over another prism, one that will overcome the subjective consequences of this phenomenon while encompassing a collective analysis that proposes an overcoming of this scenario for black women.

However, a recent situation has made me once again feel the need to address this issue by the same inclination. This text has nothing new, it’s more of the same than so many theorists have written. This time, I will try to write beyond the affective field, through an approach that takes account of other forms of being passed over that also reach us in the heart although they don’t have a direct connection with relationships.

I have a follower on my Facebook profile who always refutes my considerations on the issue of being passed over. His analyzes always focused on how aesthetic standards affect both black men and black women, and invariably points out that black women also pass over black men. I explain, always, recommend texts, links, but the approach never changes. There is a denial of the role that black men play in this scenario of abjection of black women. It’s from another denial of these, one more discussion, that I write this text.

I accessed once again my readings about the subject in an attempt to organize something that provoked reflection. I will divide this writing into two approaches, one that seeks to encompass the scenario of the solidão afetiva das mulheres negras (affective loneliness of black women) and another that accounts for another passing over, the intellectual.

From the beginning: once again, black women and lonely.

Activists and black intellectuals have denounced the scenario of black women’s loneliness for some time, social networks have potentiated this debate. According to data from the 2010 IBGE Census, 52.52% of black women are not in a relationship, regardless of marital status. That is, there are numbers, data, they are not findings that arise from my difficulty in having relationships. It is a statistically proven reality. But while a brief search on search engines presents a considerable number of serious articles that point to this diagnosis, the insistence on devaluing this question remains. And it stands strong among black men. I have noticed, but this is only a perception, not yet proven by statistical numbers, that black men are the ones who have the most resistance in dealing with this issue (1). They ignore both the experiences of black women and the studies that these same women, in a committed way, produce.

There is an absurd difficulty of assuming the passing over that relegate the women who have the similarity to those of their mothers, sisters and aunts. Understandable, because in assuming that they pass over black women in their affective relations, an imaginary scenario is created in which they also devalue the black women of their family. And this is absurdly painful and cruel. The whole topic that needs a reflection of the violence that we reproduce ourselves in daily life is difficult, that is why whites have so much difficulty in discussing racism, that is why black men have so much resistance in debating the affective solitude of black women.

“Gosto” (Taste) (here understood as affective choice) for non-black women is the rule. “Gosto” (here understood as a sexual fetish) of black women occurs in the curiosities that manifest through the maintenance of a socially constructed idea about the way these women have sex. The objectification of black women still presents the same contours of enslavement; they are experienced, like food, appropriated as objects, predestined to the instability of problematic or non-existent affective relations. We are the most prone to definite celibacy and it is not uncommon to hear from black women that they are conscious of it. I myself am working on my mind to accept this diagnosis. As I improve my studies, as I access places that are not intended for me, such as graduate school, the greater the impossibility of a relationship with another man that is of the “dating/marriage” type.

The fragility of the masculine ego and the patterns of masculinity make me an unattractive woman. Black, with higher education, social activist with some visibility. Difficult to present to family. If he is a black man with the same status as me, he will certainly access a white woman who will confirm his social success. In addition to being successful professionally, successful affectively to the eyes of the world, such a differentiated homem negro (black man) that flaunts a marriage with a mulher branca (white woman). For a homem branco (white man), to take on a mulher negra (black woman) implies the need to face racism in family relationships and among friends, and even if this man is in a social status inferior to mine, his ego is reduced. There is no availability for this. Even though love exists. The same is true for a black man in lower status. According to the census, “Black men tended to choose black women in a lower percentage (39.9%) than black women compared to men in the same group (50.3%)”. That is, black men choose white women more than black women relate to non-black men. A truism, interracial relationships occur most often among homens negros/mulheres brancas.

Thus, the relationship scenarios available to my condition as a black heterosexual woman relegate me to the constancy of “non-relationships.” Add to that the pele retinta (dark skin), the cabelo carapinha (crespo/kinky/curly hair), the round body, period. It’s a package for celibacy. I’m always the “não namorada” (non girlfriend) of someone. The one who relates, but who is not the girlfriend, the wife. The one who appears to be a girlfriend, being an affectionate partner, but she is not.

We could imagine that my case is special, since I live in Rio Grande do Sul, a place where the number of pessoas negras (black people) is reduced compared to other states, like Bahia for example. Unfortunately this premise does not prove itself. Ana Cláudia Lemos Pacheco, in her doctoral thesis, addressed the nuances of affective loneliness through a study of black women in Bahia. One of the women Ana Cláudia interviewed to write her thesis is my xará (someone with the same name): Winnie.

Winnie is 45 years old, a federal civil servant and has no children. She studied, graduated, was a militant of social movements. She’s an exception to the majority of black women in Brazil. Winnie had a partner, but according to her account: her “female independence”, construction of her femininity as “a woman who solves everything by herself” ended up making the relationship not last. Ana Cláudia’s interlocutor Winnie has more than her name in similarities with me, and I have no doubt that at 45, I will be an even more faithful portrait of Winnie. Respected by many people, blocked from the possibility of affection even by these people who admire and respect me. (2)

Se a branca fala a boca cala (If the white woman speaks the mouth shuts)

Although today there is a greater openness to the debates that concern the affective solitude of black women, whenever this issue arises in social movements, or in the networks, a latent discomfort is created. Black men rush to deny their roles in this scenario. Black women tire of explaining the reasons for its occurrence. I was able to experience another facet of this diagnosis, one that caused me a lot of pain. Although I write about it, repeat the writings of other black theorists, I came across a black man relativizing everything I wrote, using the already known technique of devaluing what I say through the display of aggressiveness, arrogance, pride (1). However, when women with skin lighter than mine wrote about the same phenomenon, with the same conclusions, they were read, understood, and accepted. Accepted. The speeches of the women with lighter skin than I were easily synthesized, mine, tired but with the same content as theirs.

This reflects social hierarchies of race, gender, and class. And as much as we try to break with these hierarchies, our peers often reinforce them, as with the de-legitimation of black women’s discourse by black men. The socially constructed racial hierarchy prevails, making the voices of white women more easily assimilated than ours, even though we have more expertise in the issue in question; a sad, but existent expertise. Our voices, little heard in any subject, regarding the subject matter of this text, are muffled with even more force. Because when they echo, they echo the permanence of the servile treatment that the black population still experiences.

This voice, this text, is mine. It’s of other black women. It’s of science. Two numbers. Of consciousness, but unfortunately, most men hear only the voice of convenience. And the convenience silences black women. Because convenience is white in essence.

I think we need to think seriously about the consequences of these approaches, so that we don’t have an endless cycle of Winnies. So that the Winnies that come will have fewer unhealed wounds of historical and social pain.

Source: Medium.com/@WinnieBueno

Note

  1. I have often noted the attitudes Bueno describes when I engage black Brazilian men on this topic, both in face to face dialogue as well as in social networks.
  2. A previous study confirms Bueno’s fears. The report pointed out that “black women marry less than white women and, when rich or highly educated, they tend not to marry. And when they do, they do so with partners of lesser social status, which can be white or black.”

20 comments on “One woman, passed over in so many ways: Are black men more likely to listen to concerns of black women if they are articulated by white women?

  1. In brazil
    January 2, 2017

    There is a lot of Swiss cheese holes in this post…

    Using statistics talking about sex choices is flawed and can be manipulated in a big way, the blog owner does it all the time relating to his anti interracial union vendetta.

    Black women lonely , speaks much more to the issues between black men and black women than interracial unions.

    Talk about statistic manipulation , how many black men are not in a relationship ? Without that statistic , there is absolutely no basis for comparison . Could it be 11 percent difference ? The difference between black men not choosing white mates and black women choosing white mates? ( another skewed statistic , using cookie cutter race descriptions that get extremely blurred in pardo territory) .

    What the flaw is , is that there are huge amounts of lonely men out there also . It has much more to do with men and women not seeing eye to eye , and having too many expectations of each other than anything to do with interracial unions .

    Oh, activists and intellectuals support her …people who have lost my total trust on interracial union analysis , filled with uptight feminist man bashing and activist militant dogma and agendas against interracial unions ( yeah , the white racists did it first , with political agendas against interracial unions in the USA south ) , and , just bracingly ignorant amateur and professional psychoanalysis

    This is what makes statistics on personal consenting adults sex choices so full of bs…they really don’t have anything to do with interracial unions, and, everything to do with issues between men and women.

    If you have to consult statistics to determin if you have a chance to get a man your race, you truly are over intellectualising , she really answered her own question, fully admitting her activism was a turn off , gees, it’s time for activist black men to step up to the plate instead of ranking on interracial unions , this woman is faily attractive .

    But , it’s interesting to note, that in these anti interracial discourses, so many stigmatations get revealed .

    The very fact a term like palmitagem gets thrown around, a derogatory implication towards interracial unions , and, based on anti interracial stink stares I got from black people in brazil thirty years ago , anti interracial union feelings have been rampant in the black Brazilian community a long time…just like in the white community in brazil …

    This destroys the myth the black Brazilian community is monolithicly hypnotized to only want white people , in fact, with most black Brazilian men with black Brazilian women , and derogatory remarks like palmitagem in affect, it is a cliche that black Brazilian men and women are attracted to white people.

    And the reality is, to embark on an interracial union in brazil, is to actually invite scrutiny , rejection and stigmatization from all sides .

    Just amazing the blog owner is cherry picking the black Brazilian activist dogma against interracial union..

    Very serious issues get lost in this bs agenda..

    There is a real truth in north east brazil , that as little as thirty years ago, families were large, several children in families would be lost to child birth or early death from disease , and , the cliche was , boys were much more desired than girls, so, at an early age , girls were made to feel unwanted , and this played out much greater in brown and black poor families.

    So much more than the myth black Brazilians women are attracted to white men, the rejection and implication girls are less desirable in a family than boys, are the huge dynamic at play with self esteem issues and issues between men and women.

    Same with murders by jealous ex boyfriends and husbands, something much more frequent with brown and black Brazilians . Blog owner, your head is up your rear end if you think interracial unions are the problem.

    And you and your cherry picked blog owners and Facebook page activists , are becoming a broken record with flawed statistics , over intellectualising, using bracingly disgusting psycho analysis , a bogus science anyway, militant failed feminist uptight logic , and just general dogma and word vomit.

    As I pointed out, anti interracial union attitudes exist in the black community anyway, for a while, it’s not surprising you can find patsys to support your agenda , gringo blog owner.

    Back off interracial unions

    • Christine
      January 2, 2017

      You seem to be very sensitive about interracial relationships, I guess you’re in one. In your emotional and dismissive want you missed the point! This article isnt about interracial relationships, this article is about the relationship choices that black men make in Brazil and why. The same conditions are found here in the US. A lot of how black people globally see themselves is a result of 500 years of constant, unrelenting degradation. And as a result you will find black men, especially with status, almost exclusively choosing non black women–many times of lower social status as mates. There is an affinity in black communities the world over for European features coming from both black men and women, and this largely plays into the relationship choices of particularly black men with wealth. If you agree or not is irrelevant, as black women we know our own experiences and dont need an outsider to validate it.

      • gatasnegrasbrasileiras
        January 2, 2017

        I’m glad someone else picked on the slant of “In Brazil”. Indeed, the same point I would make. The fact is that this article actually has nothing to do specifically with IRs and several other articles posted don’t either. But it seems some people can’t deal with analysis beyond the accepted discourse.

        No problem. I will be dealing with Mr. “In Brazil” shortly…

      • gatasnegrasbrasileiras
        January 2, 2017

        My assessment of Mr.”In Brazil” goes a little further than the possibility that he is engaged in an interracial relationship himself. His reactions and his responses to only a few issues of all of the topics featured on this blog reveal a little more…More on that in the future…

    • gatasnegrasbrasileiras
      January 2, 2017

      Let me get right to the point “In brazil”

      I don’t like your tone. I’ve allowed you to come and share your view in your comments but when you make statements such as “back off” I don’t appreciate this. “Back off” or what?

      The people writing their opinions on topics on this blog have every right to express them. So I will politely ask you to tone down your rhetoric. You have every right to go on your diatribes on your own blog or what ever other form you wish.

      The major parts of these articles are written by BRAZILIAN people. Why do you fail to respect that simply because you disagree? Your attitude comes across as very authoritarian and I won’t allow that one MY BLOG.

      This is MY BLOG!! I HAVE FREEDOM to post what I choose to post. If the material here bothers you so much, DON’T READ IT!!

      • In brazil
        January 3, 2017

        I don’t blame you for being upset that I see through you…ban me , I don’t care , I see through you , I call you out in real life for the bs you print to the English speaking world . That is real life not the phony cyber space , fakebook, fake friends Internet echo chamber world where fake lies and fake news abounds.

        You said you got the bs about politic protests , but I run across your take on the impeachment protests and you racialised it like the idiot Glenn Greenwald . Calling it all white ….what racialised sham , gringo, look at the PT protests, the black bloc, the anarchists , the communists, all overwhelmingly white!

        Look at the compilation picture of those killed by the dictatorship, mostly Marxist violent armed terrorists, overwhelmingly white..

        You are just another gringo superimposing your gringo manipulation about what you want brazil to be seen as

        Your ninety percent on point material ruined by your ten percent bs

        And ” so what?” , about stares at interracial unions, try it with me in real life and you will understand

        Go ahead ban me, but I see through you

      • gatasnegrasbrasileiras
        January 3, 2017

        Instead of the necessity of banking why don’t you just ban yourself? Rua funny thing about you is that you convieniently choose bit to mention the articles on this blog that call out the white dominance of PT. I guess you didn’t read those articles, right? The fact is that I personally don’t wave any political flags because they are ALL shams! But in your desire to do nothing but rant you will never know this.

        I also are through Glen Greenwald because I’ve already analyzed who be is and what he’s about.

        And even with PT being white dominated I saw many more blacks um pro PT rallies than pro-impeachment.

        Mamipulation is not my game as much as yours is to try derail those who don’t share your opinion.

        Material on interracial unions is a small percentage of the thousands of articles of this blog. But that’s ALL you talk about. I’d say it is YOU with the agenda.

        And why are you pointing out Marxism here? I’ve already spoken on this and apparently you still don’t know what it is…

      • gatasnegrasbrasileiras
        January 3, 2017

        If you’re so big and bad with all of this smoke you’re blowing why don’t you share your real name and identity instead of hiding behind this “In Brazil” moniker. That way we’ll ALL know who you are. Or would you prefer I do it? Anyone can talk big and bad and hide behind a fake name.

      • gatasnegrasbrasileiras
        January 3, 2017

        Dude. If I decide to delete all of this rhetoric you wrote you will have wasted all that time writing dissertations sharing a very typical opinion. If 95% of Brazilians already think the way you do what are you so worried about by this little blog? And as you are also a gringo how is it that you think you’re entitled to speak for Brazilians? At least the main sections of my posts are actually written by Brazilians!

      • gatasnegrasbrasileiras
        January 3, 2017

        You know when I actually read some of your rants I actually conclude that you and I actually are eye to eye on some things but you’re so busy making accusations that you wouldn’t know it. A shame.

        Ler me tell you something. I don’t always agree with university studies because Marxism has slowly taken over there too. But what you don’t seem to get is the following.

        Everything you’re ranting about comer from the same source. But what you’re misguided about is the FACT that all the things you accuse me of, ie, naked bundas and hip shaking during Carnaval, rejecting liberalism by being uptight and the promotion of interracial unions are ALL Marxist! Cultural Marxism seeks to liberalize EVERYTHING! And nudity in the media, the promotion of interracial unions and the mixture of races, feminism, porn, the gay movement, etc., they are ALL Marxism with the objective being the slow Fabian styled degradation of society by loosening up social mores so that limits don’t exist.

        So you can rant all you want but you can’t denounce Communism and Marxism with you um fact support certain facets of it.

        The promotion of interracial unions in Brazil was introduced by a Português freemason, which is also a branch of the Communist agenda.

        I would suggest you do some research and find out what it is you actually stand for because you come across as very confused.

  2. in brazil
    January 2, 2017

    christine , you are generalising a lot about black men…you make it out like its a monolith that well off black men want to be with non black women…why are you paying so much attention to athaletes and celebrities? i could care less what you think of me or my opinion, but if you think you are going to bring your naive take on whats going on in brazil and just bring dogma and rhetoric to the table to rank on interracial relationships , and not have pushback from people really in interracial relationships, you are sadly mistaken. lady., im american and ive been in interracial relationships since the late sixties . and ive dealt with anti interracial union disgusting negative reactions from all sides, and i am one hardened individual, who wont just cower in the corner when the witch hunt starts . these anti interracial attitudes count on people in these relationships to cower and not stand up…the anti interracial people can come up with all kinds of rhetoric and phony psycho analasis, and then say if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem…that wont cut it anymore

    christine, i dont think you really care about black women, because these anti interracial attitudes throw a lot of black men and women under the table , without taking each individual case and trying to understand it

    i never denied there are black people who reject black people as mates, i just say its not the monolith you or the blog owner make it out to be..and there are huge and complex various reasons why black men or women might end up in an interracial union , that go deep into the hirarcial family and neighborhood roots where they come from…you and the blog owner leave all the complexities and nuances out, and the fact, that each interracial union has to be analised on its own individuals involved and their lives.

    the day people start trying to regulate peoples sexuality and personal choices, you got a huge problem

    gringo blog owner, how can you deny there are your vendetta implications about interracial unions when your opening notes refer to leo and his testimony.

    his testimony at one point said that in real life, these interracial unions dont happen for most black men, this is what i said, this is what im telling you…you are the one banging this note over and over and finding disgruntled women who are happy to agree with you and men who did play that game play into your narrative…do you really think all black young men play his and his freinds game? what a generalisation…or , you will find many intra racial young men playing bad games with women…..

    as i said above , its no monolith that black people in brazil are programmed to look for white mates…i just pointed out i got negative stink stares from black brazilians thirty years ago, anti interracial union attitudes exist in the black brazilian community also, and, anyone hung up on anti interracial attitudes is going down a rotten path

    oh , so you think you got my number gringo blog owner? ive said various times, keep up the good work about the things other than those i come in and comment on. i came in , because i saw your mug on one of these videos going around, spouting your anti interracial vendetta, talking about the colorism case in the globoleza racist incident. and let me tell you, your mistake is throwing light skinned black women and mixed children under the bus to defend dark skinned black women….i also came in a few years ago to address your deplorable take on passistas and especialy the ignorant comments , which you dont defend the passistas at all…your take was ignorant, you didnt even note the passistas are a rio phenomenon, they are much less in the northeast and anyone doing promotion on passistas in rio would be justified, but not an add about salvador…

    dark skinned black women deserve every help and honor and support that can be shown…WITHOUT THROWING LIGHT SKINNED BLACK WOMEN OR MIXED BLACK WOMEN UNDER THE BUS ….and that is easily possable to support them with out throwing other shades of black women under the bus…as a matter of fact, its a very poor tactic to throw other black people under the bus, especialy because of interracial unions

    and that is why you need to be seriously challenged for the posts you do that do exactly that, throw black people under the bus , because they dont fit under the dogmad rhetoric that was the weak and bad part of the late sixties black militant agenda dogma…there were many valuable things from the black militant agenda , but, excluding and scrutinising black people for being in interracial realationships with white people, was total bs

    to think that anti interracial union dogma comes from white weak soft science like psycho analisis by way of fannon , just boggles the mind, as do your american sexual represion we all got raised under, later informed by white femminist uptight about sex militant dogma , ready to join hung up religous sex attitudes to start calling women who expose too much skin as sex objects…toss in some warped political psycho sexual bable about using skin as some political white supremacy plot. and you bowl of bs you are bringing this down into brazil

    a lot of this crap comes out of the university, where a lot of psycho -political-sex bable hides, and brazil is no differant, maybe worse, the universities here have produced some of the most idiot political ideologue leading professors as ive seen anywhere…i have very little trust for some of this racial analisis coming of universities…this woman activist comes from the university mind set and it shows…i didnt say everything she sais is wrong, i say it has holes

    intellectualising and psycho analising personal consenting sex choices is petty, and shallow…where intellectualising is very important is in the legal area to fight against racism and fight for laws that will help eliminate obstacles

  3. in brazil
    January 2, 2017

    gringos going to salvador is funny…every gringo who goes to pelo, thinks they are part of the holy grail of expertice of black brazil…people of all colors, its like a psych mistique…count me in, but, gringo, you better understand, ive been going to salvador since 1986 , gringo, no matter what color you are, you got to respect that this gringo has been doing this just a lot longer than you, and live in brazil…

    i always search the internet for english takes on brazil, im always interested in fellow gringos experiances in brazil, how they stack up against mine. for sure if im looking for english speaking material on gringo takes on brazil, you come up..

    but, its amazing, just the last couple of months, i came across two gringo term papers from differant people , about their experiances in pelorinho and their petty take on it based on who they were studying with

    oh they were very scholorly papers with some good scholorly information…but, they all started getting into these warped gringo analisiss of what is going on. both of them reffering to fannon and faucault , putting down the bloco afros as comercial and apropriating african culture …i mean what bunk, what makes the bloco afos important is that they innovated a unique beat that is what the power of afro diasporic culture is all about, and anyone who performs afro diasporic culture is not trying to re-create africa, they are using the incredable principles that the ancient africans brought to the world…if they created their own innovation, they fullfilled their role as continuing the afro diasporic principles

    these papers also had terms like “sexualisation (this is a disgusting word brought to you from people i wouldnt trust as far as i could throw a bus, to define my sexuality) and other basic tripe brought to you by the university mind set

    i felt like i had to take a bath after i read those term papers…but, you have to know salvador like i know it to see through the bs

    gringo, be very careful not to superimpose your gringoness on brazil…

  4. Jules
    January 2, 2017

    Black men for the most part are a conquered group. The system have done what it intended to do when the first ship arrived on these distant shores. If a group is to be made broken it is the men who will have to be weakened, that was achieved systematically and so cleanly that black men think the choices they make today are their true choices coming out of their own free will.

  5. In brazil
    January 4, 2017

    Yes, we do see eye to eye on many things , Unfortunatly , the 10 percent I disagree with from you, throw black men and women under the bus , all the black people in interracial unions are scrutinized , passistas are scrutinized , mixed race people and light skinned black women are implicated in the cheap route to self esteem. The quality route doesn’t throw light skinned , mixed , or in an interracial union black people under the bus.

    Yes, I’ve been in interracial unions since the late sixties , I work with passistas, and respect them so much.And these people who lump them in as representing sex symbols , whether white dogs who only think of them as that, or black feminist tainted activist saying they are used to represent the wrong image of black women , mingle with huge amounts of Brazilians who don’t like passistas or samba, only goes to destroying the art and puts obstacles in the way of artists I have the absolute highest respect for.

    Do you have any idea the forces at play that absolutely stifle the real passista from being able to work and be respected as the artists they are, one of the highest examples if Afro diasporic dance in the world from a very rich afro Brazilian dance tradition…? How many obstacles they have to face? How the real passistas are hidden from tv coverage and mostly actresses and models , lots white, hold their coveted positions, taking quick homogenized samba classes to crack off a few steps…I wish you would report on the high art of the passista , the tradition and the real professional hardships they face, and , it’s more work rejection than sex exploitation…

    About cultural Marxism , there are real commies down here , I know exactly how they smell . I know how they infiltrate good ideas like fair pay , and parley it into their horrible dogma . The quick research I did in the name you gave said this term is hauled back and forth now as an insult , so, in intellectual circles, it has obviously been lost in university hubris…

    One thing I have to say, a cultural Marxist has to have the intent to disrupt and push his agenda. I hate Marxism and have no desire to participate with them. That you say they push nudism to degenerate society , is opisite of my notion , which is sensuality and eroticism is actually healthy for society , and we come from repressed societies . If some cultural Marxist agenda of pushing degeneration crosses path with my contention it is healthy , only demonstrates thei submurcive bs, and you should know the difference . I think it’s harder for them to infiltrate media pushing sex…what they really sound like is , the group of people from various areas , putting down America and everything it has done, with no reference to the other side, like reading off of a communist Russian soviet propaganda page with castros snot all over it..

    I never called you a communist or red flagger, I know the real ones, their stink, that is from living here thirty years…

    Your take on the impeachment demonstrations was straight out of Greenwald , he did an article pretty much like yours , racialising it…look, you could find black people in those impeachment demonstrations . You have to be kidding if you think the pt had any thing near what brazil looks like in their people. You want to know the manifestation that looked more like the brazil mix? The evangelical march for Jesus in São Paulo , or , the police force..

    These articles by black Brazilians , with your notes , implicating interracial unions, and passistas, is standing on my toes and some incredible black people I know , who I work with and personally am involved with….you have to accept I’m going to have to say to you and the black Brazilians who implicate other black Brazilians , who I know and work with , get off our toes you are standing on without even knowing our story…

    I did identify myself , I brought in a YouTube , my name was on it…

    • gatasnegrasbrasileiras
      January 4, 2017

      More responses:

      “Your take on the impeachment demonstrations was straight out of Greenwald , he did an article pretty much like yours , racialising it”

      There are many aspects to the protests as well as the what really happened leading to the impeachment that the press is not discussing at all. I NEVER said it was all about race; race was simply another aspect that can be analyzed. And as this blog discusses race, that’s one of the way myself and other writers have looked at it. It is far from the main aspect though and I’ve NEVER stated that it was.

      “You have to be kidding if you think the pt had any thing near what brazil looks like in their people”

      I never wrote that. I simply said one saw more black Brazilians at PT rallies rather than pro-impeachment rallies

      “These articles by black Brazilians , with your notes , implicating interracial unions, and passistas, is standing on my toes and some incredible black people I know”

      Perhaps you should stop reading the posts if they bother you that much. It’s not about disrespect; it’s analysis and dialogue about an issue that more and more people want to discuss.

      “Unfortunatly , we are at odds over posts that directly implicate me and people close to me and people I work with….I would be deceiving myself and these people I know if I didn’t come in and debunk stereotypes and generalizations I see”

      That’s fine. I simply ask that you show some respect. People write such material because that it the way THEY see things. The same way you express how YOU see things. That’s what freedom of speech is all about. And I appreciate that freedom but I never use this freedom to belittle anyone else but some of your rants DO come across that way.

  6. In brazil
    January 4, 2017

    You can google my name ” andrew scott potter ” put ” cd” in it , and get six or seven pages of my name. I just toured rio , Salvador , New York and Miami , featuring an incredible afro Brazilian dancer, demonstrating links with ketu Candomble and how it has the essence roots of where jazz gets its swing groove from…

    Yeah , maybe I should ban myself ….you don’t see me interfering with most of your posts, but, I have been battling against anti interracial union attitudes all over , and I have received stink anti interracial stares from black Brazilians too, so, there is no reason to not stand up to their attitudes also, defending black Brazilians I know and these are real lives , not theories on paper…

    I’ve said it before keep up the good work on all those other issues, Unfortunatly , we are at odds over posts that directly implicate me and people close to me and people I work with….I would be deceiving myself and these people I know if I didn’t come in and debunk stereotypes and generalizations I see

    • gatasnegrasbrasileiras
      January 4, 2017

      Hello again “In Brazil/Andrew”…

      I’m actually glad you stepped forward and identified yourself. I was planning to do it myself…

      First, let me address the idea of music as you are a musician and I have a past as a musician and am still a big fan of all sorts of music.

      I read a few things online about your work. Good for you! That’s great! And you’re finding success and have been successful, still better for you and bringing more recognition to an art form that does deserve accolades.

      But as you said, we will be at odds at certain things and that’s just the way it is. I won’t write a dissertation right now as I simply don’t have the time…

      My thing is this…

      What we are experiencing right now and for several years is Fabian style socialism. It is the slow degradation of society through the breakdown of morals, families, marriage, porn etc. And if you notice this is ALL happening right now!

      Brazil is a perfect example of this. Brazilian Cinema from several decades ago liberally featured nudity and sexuality. There was a time when I although I saw no problem with it, in the back of my mind I always wondered why everything has so much sex and violence…And always more, more, MORE!!! What I have discovered is that once you take the lid off and you let the monster out, when do say enough is enough?

      For you personally, when do you say, “OK, that’s enough”? My views have nothing to do being “uptight”as you call it. My concern is its affect on the society at large. We live in a sex-obsessed world and that’s no accident. If it’s simply about the art of the passista, which is clearly art, why not consider changing their wardrobe? If it is about just art, it would still be art if they wore evening gowns…Not saying it’s necessary but giving an example.

      I will expand on that point at another time…

      On the interracial issue, I will be writing a post soon that covers most of my views on this topic. You tend to look at the issue as just “I’m involved in interracial relationships” and “people stare” and there are black people who are against it.

      My thing is ANYTHING can be studied. What is the problem with that? For decades, one could actually argue, centuries, Brazil has been this huge “melting pot” and for much of that time, black Brazilians simply accepted that with no questions asked. They swallowed the whole “we have mixed couples so there can’t be racism here” and actively sought white partners because they were always taught that “whitening” one’s family is something everyone should aspire to.

      Nowadays, more black Brazilians are questioning this discourse. And they have the right to do so. You cannot say that we should attack white racism when the imposition of white supremacy/standards of beauty clearly play a role in people desiring to have white partners and whiter children. If you’re not willing to analyze this, then you are not really willing to analyze racism/white supremacy in ALL of its forms.

      In past decades, even black Brazilians didn’t admit/discuss racism. They didn’t want to be seen as black. Now, for many, these are vital issues that need to be discussed. My blog offers nothing outside of what blogs written in Portuguese are already discussing.

      There will ALWAYS be debate in the world. People will argue about Christianity vs. Islam. Corinthians and Palmeiras. Blonds and brunettes. Capitalism vs. Socialism. They will argue about which country has the most beautiful women. You CANNOT stifle dialogue or debate simply because you hold one view and others hold another.

      There are plenty of blogs out there that believe that the PT was great for Brazil whole others will argue how horrible it was. This debate will never end.

      At this point in time, the average Brazilian still believes “we’re all mixed” or “love has no color”, but there are others who want to look a little deeper into this question. Many of the pieces on this blog about interracial unions are bringing out points that are very personal, thought-provoking and challenging of popular discourse of Brazil as a whole.

      You didn’t need to write that you’ve been involved in interracial relationships. It’s quite obvious. But everyone does have the same view as you do. Some maybe did once upon a time but after some analysis they are coming to other conclusions. The piece written by Leo recognizing his own ‘palmitagem’ was deep and took a lot of courage to write. He remains married to a white woman to this day. But he is honest enough to realize the factors that contributed to his choices, which is the point of the articles on the interracial unions.

      These people have the right express their views on this without being the target of a rant. I have included all of the sources of the people who right the material. Have you taken up your issues with them? They are the writers of the pieces and I’m sure they would have some choice words for you if you wanted to debate this topic.

      As for me, things are always changing. The analysis of IRs beyond “love has no color” continues to grow and in the future more people will be discussing it.

      And that material will continue to have a place on this blog.

  7. In brazil
    January 5, 2017

    I apreciete you trying to clarify your position…

    I’d like to say I’m the last person to say love has no color , my position is each interracial union is based on the individuals involved .

    As far as choice words from the Brazilian contributors , I’ll leave the response to them up to several of my sister in laws who I pity the fool who would try to run some of this past them.and I stated I know only too well of black Brazilians thirty years ago giving stink anti interracial stares ( I have an 8 second cut off point, longer than that and it is invading a space it shouldn’t be in ) , so I know anti interracial attitudes exist in brazil in the black Brazilian community

    If we are being honest , my contribution to these kind of anti interracial unions attitudes , is badly needed , since they are presented so one sided…if my responses seem like a vent , it’s because the blatent stereotypes and stigmatations of interracial unions border on the obscene…my point of view is badly needed in these one sided discussions against interracial unions.

    I totally agree about the whitewash in media, it’s insidious , much more damaging than the supposed whitening process …I just disagree it translates to interracial unions , and I have debunked that over and over in various ways.

    That doesn’t mean some people don’t think like that , I just think black people are more intelligent and less victims about it. I think many black people pick up very fast how the whitewashed media treats them and get it at an early age. While there are lots of hair issues, white people are trying to get tans. Hair issues don’t translate to interracial unions the same way interracial unions don’t translate to being non racist or color blind.

    Sure colorism plays out in some families, but , in Salvador , I know an incredible medium brown skinned dancer who wasnt allowed to dance with a bloco afro because she wasnt dark enough , so , add the stink stares the black woman and I got, ( you know , I’m tough , I can take it, it’s the black women I’m with that has to receive that crap that I feel for the most and don’t deserve it, that makes me angry, and I feel the same for black men subjected to this) and terms like palmitagem , that prove that white adulation is not a monolithic direction , and may be a smaller direction than is implied in these one way discussions.There may be more anti interracial union sentiment than those in favor in brazil .

    I can see our take on exposed skin is at severe odds, while you say there is too much, I say it’s either raunch or repression in our Abrahambic based societies. I think porn is healthy and the limits are adult consent , anything with underage or non consent is over the line…I also beleive in real sex education discussions where people learn to listen to each other, not led by anthropologists, social science or psychology , who I don’t trust to define sexuality at all, and , is deep in the bowel and gaze of white Western European Abrahambic strangle hold.i would trust sex workers and porn hub to learn discussing about sex than anything coming out of a university or political agenda.So , sorry to say , most of your ” experts ” don’t cut it for me.

    And the sensuality in display in brazil makes it on a higher level than many other places. I’m not saying sex , I’m saying the sensuality that is allowed in public is on a phenomenal leval , and , our American backgrounds are repressed in comparison,there is no doubt in my mind that being exposed to Brazilian sensuality makes a major difference in mental health and well being and is desirable in life..

    Which is why I support the passista costume unconditionally , but I also present sambao with a dynamic samba dancer without the costume also….a lot…

    I’m just trying to clarify my point of view and our differences …I agree with so much other work you put up and keep up that good work , but , our differences have great devide …which is why I’ll happily fight white racism in my fox hole…I understand we can’t be in the same trench..

    I would like to say , it’s different down here, the toilet flushes the opisite direction, I think brazil is extrely visceral , and , a person has to throw away a lot of preconceived notions about a lot of things to understand this incredible country.books don’t do me much good down here…this is a place of the heart and gut instinct more than intellectual …for sure for me that is how it is living here.

    • gatasnegrasbrasileiras
      January 5, 2017

      OK “In brazil”, there are a few lines here in this, your latest response, that really lets me know that we will not see eye to eye. Let me cite a few of those lines:

      “I think porn is healthy and the limits are adult consent , anything with underage or non consent is over the line…”

      Once upon a time, like any teenager, I thought, ‘wow, this cool’ to see porn becoming available. But as I got older and starting seeing the pornification of the society seeping into film, music, TV, etc., I started noticing the effects it was having in a very general way. We’re to the point today where sharing videos and memes of explicit porn is the norm. I don’t see this influence as positive at all. I believe porn represents often times decadent, degrading displays of sexuality and raising the bar on what is the norm. This applies to sex acts as well as male and female bodies that don’t represent the populations as a whole. The normalization of porn stems out of the bogus studies of Alfred Kinsley, studies that have been proven to be a sham. But by presenting his outrageous figures as what was going on in American bedrooms, it began introduce a new sexual culture in which the system continuously pushed the envelope of what is acceptable. And whether you admit it or not, there is no limit. This is the problem with totally liberal thinking. It ALWAYS seeks to go a step beyond. As such, you cannot say that there is a limit. First you start with just a little nudity. Then more. Then complete nudity. Then sex on film. Threesomes. Orgies. Homosexuality. Eventually it leads to sex with animals and children. Maybe you say you don’t accept that. But as you continue to allow door to open, it is almost impossible to “put the genie back in the bottle”.

      Notice: Today there are more and more lawmakers, studies and activists pushing to demolish age of consent laws. Without the liberalization and normalization of porn, this would not be possible.

      You also mention that underage is going beyond the limit but as I wrote in my previous example, once you liberalize everything, there is no turning back. Walk the streets of São Paulo and you will see vendors selling bootleg films and porn side by side. Any seven year old kid can walk up the table, with or without a parent and see explicit sexual acts on DVD covers. And now with the internet, you’ve opened the floodgate to the pornification of a child’s mind. Is that cool to you?

      The same was true in the 70s. You cannot think that you can hide things from children whether they be X-rated comedy albums, sexually explicit music or sex scenes in films. If it’s available, children will find ways to see it.

      “I also beleive in real sex education discussions where people learn to listen to each other, not led by anthropologists, social science or psychology , who I don’t trust to define sexuality at all, and , is deep in the bowel and gaze of white Western European Abrahambic strangle hold.”

      But in this view that you hold, what happens when the anthropologists, sociologists and psychologists all start promoting porn and sex education? They will then be supporting what you believe. Will you still reject them then or will you then accept them because they are promoting what you believe? For example: Have you seen the Harvard course on anal sex?

      “i would trust sex workers and porn hub to learn discussing about sex than anything coming out of a university or political agenda.”

      REALLY? Porn Hub and sex workers? So, if you have children, you’d just introduce them to a prostitute or internet porn and tell him/her, “Here, this is what sex is all about”? And again, what happens when the Marxist-oriented universities adapt this same type of thinking? Will you suddenly support them?

      Sorry, but I see a difference between human sexuality and hardcore pornography. Pornography, in my view, is having untold negative effects on society as a whole. I don’t have all day to explain this but as your mind is already made up why would I anyway?

      “books don’t do me much good down here”

      OK, maybe not for you. Sure there are plenty of things one must experience in Brazil to truly “get it” but numerous books that I have read before arriving here totally explained what Brazil was. So many things in these books explain experiences I’ve had here, from the phrases people use, to the “mind of the Brazilian” to cultural and political beliefs. I believe experiences will enhance the books but I would never throw out the books. I don’t know what books you’re reading, but I’ve read plenty of books that explain topics perfectly and then those that miss the point. It would be a mistake to ‘burn the books’ simply because you’ve read those that you disagree with.

      With that said, I think your statements on porn pretty much prove that we will forever argue on how to interpret this. That’s fine. Just understand, I won’t always have time to respond to your rants. I know that certain topics I speak on and feature on this blog you will reject and that’s fine. But as such, I don’t see the necessity of continuously beefing about it. You’re completely on one side of the fence while I’m more on that fence that says, “let’s discuss this”.

  8. In brazil
    January 6, 2017

    Yes, I disagree with every point you made and have a response …will it do any good , or change you? No…

    I again , apreciete your clarification , and, it explains a lot…

    I’ll just meet you down the road near carnival when you will do your annual obligatory posts on what is wrong with the too much exposed skin and shaking hips of the passistas…

    Meanwhile , exactly because of the way people like you think, I’m going to savor with a passion , and value very much, going to my beach and enjoy watching the incredible sensuality that the beautiful Brazilian women allow me the real privalege of admiring their achingly provocative mind liberating style… and not feel the shaming repression of agendists with militant feminists looking over my shoulder guilt tripping me with a thousand years of abrahombric religion clouding their brains.

    And , redouble my efforts to hire passistas for future shows. Nothing like real life compared to cyber space .

    ( by the way, it’s the Marxist countries who ban porn hub, and , yes, I wish a sex worker and porn hub were in my life when I hit puberty, heck , talking with my peers is the absolute worst sex education in the world…)

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: